In this episode, we welcome back Kassandra Baker as we dive deep into the dangers of idolizing thinness within Christian communities. Kassandra shares her journey through eating disorders, depression, and the eventual freedom she found by letting go of the cultural obsession with thinness. 

In this episode, we'll help you:

-Identify when thinness becomes an idol 

-Replace ideals with God's kind reality

-Practical steps when you struggle with the need to be thin  

Our anchor verse for this episode is Daniel 3:17-18: "If this be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of your hand, O king. But if not, be it known to you, O king, that we will not serve your gods or worship the golden image that you have set up.”   

My hope is you'll walk away with greater faith and a healthier life as you find true freedom in Christ.  

🎧 Click here to listen on Apple podcasts

Time Stamps:

00:27 The Dangers of Idolizing Thinness 

01:23 Personal Journey and Struggles 

03:31 Recognizing Thinness as an Idol 

09:33 Breaking Free from the Idol of Thinness 

18:36 Practical Steps to Overcome 

28:15 The Idol of Thinness and Personal Sacrifice 

28:51 The Process of Neuroplasticity 

29:52 Honoring God Through Our Bodies 

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Resources: 

• Coaching with Kassandra
• Body Blessings Course
• Love Beyond Looks: A 5-Week Bible Study on Body Image

Connect with Kassandra:

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Email: [email protected]
www.KassandraBaker.com

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Raw Transcript

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Well, hello there, joyful Health friends. Welcome to another episode, and today I have with me Kassandra Baker. Welcome, Kassandra. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: Hi Kasey. I'm excited to be here again today. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Me too. And y'all. She has been on the show. This is her third time. But honestly, we have, we always have so much to talk about, and some of her episodes have been your favorite ones. And so today we are talking about. Um, in Christian circles, the danger of idolizing thinness in Christian circles. 

And I think I was awakened to this idea from one of the definitions of diet culture from the book Anti Diet by Christy Harrison. She. diet culture as worshiping thinness and equating it to health and moral virtue. And so the, you know, even recognizing that diet culture is, is a societal system where [00:01:00] we are bowing down to this ideal body type and, um, really without us realizing it because we mask it as a form of. Good stewardship. Um, perhaps so tell me about why you are passionate about this topic and why you were excited to, to talk about it today. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: Well, I'm passionate because, um, I bowed down and worship the idol of thinness for about two decades at 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Hmm. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: And so, um, it's my own, um, story and my own pain and suffering. Um, that is part of the, the biggest reason why I'm passionate and I. Ultimately by bowing down and, and serving thinness, um, as an idol, it led to two eating disorders, depression, anxiety. 

Now again, these are all complex and it's usually not just one thing, but idle worship of thinness was definitely a component of it. And, um, but the exciting thing is that. I'm no longer there. And so my [00:02:00] whole story, if you're interested in that and everything, it's on episode 14, so I encourage you to check that out. 

But ultimately, the Lord got my attention about this, um, as an idol in my life through a traumatic brain injury that I suffered in 2014. And so in one, in one moment, my ability to do the behaviors I needed to do for the orthorexia, uh, were taken away. It was no longer an option of like, I should do these. 

It's, I couldn't do those things um, that Ed said I had to do, um, to be in a thinner body. And so. many ways, um, while the traumatic bearing injury continues, um, to impact my life, um, I'm thankful 'cause I really believe it was the catalyst that God used to set me free. And I would rather live, uh, free from the idle of Thinness and Ed than, um. 

Than just to have a, and I'd rather live with the traumatic brain injury results because living under [00:03:00] who I call ed in the gang, um, uh, was so much worse than, um, even when I, uh, faced the physical, um. Illnesses and issues that I've had. So, um, life is so drastically different now and I never really thought I would be here. 

And the fact that I am is nothing short of a miracle and God's grace. And so, um, that's why I do this is so that I can help other women live free as well. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yes. I love that. Okay, so you talked about worshiping this idol for two years. Now, for the person who has not heard of this concept of thinness as an actual idol, um, what. was there anything that awakened you to this thought of, oh, this is actually an idol that, um, is ruining my health and relationship with God too? 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yeah. So it was two decades. 20, at least 20 years. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: 20 years. Okay. Not two years, two decades. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yeah, two decades. [00:04:00] That's a big difference. Um, so, I would say, you know, uh, see, I had. In 2011, it was when Orthorexia, uh, orthorexia started to develop and I got into a smaller body that I'd never gotten into before that I'd reached a size that I had always said, oh, if I get in that size, then I'll be okay and everything will be all right. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Hmm. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: And of course, that finish line moves right? And uh, so it was never enough. so then, but see, I had always believed that thin equals healthy. And so I believed that I had found freedom because I was in a smaller body. And so the traumatic brain injury, when it took away my ability to do those behaviors, all of a sudden my, um, my emotional distress and upheaval drastically increased. 

And like, maybe I'm not as okay and free as what I thought, because apparently. If I can't do these things, I'm not okay. And so that was really, um, and it was in many ways just a grace 'cause [00:05:00] um, the option to do those things was just taken away because I physically couldn't do them anymore. 

And so in that way it really revealed the idle quite drastically and quickly. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yeah. 

for sure. And um, I think we have talked about this before, but I'm gonna bring it up again because this is one of my favorite. Quotes for idol and how we can recognize them is that this is a quote by Tim Color and he says that idols consume you when you pursue them, uh, disappoint you when you get them, and devastate you when you lose them. 

And. God is not like that. He is going to be there forever. And you know, the, the idol of thinness is not only unattainable for many people 'cause our body was not meant to be shaped that way, but it, it comes at a great cost, um, socially, emotionally, financially, and more of a cost than God. for us and thinking about, you know, [00:06:00] looking at what is, what does Exodus 20 say when God talks about the idol is, um, you shall love the Lord your God. 

And then number two, you shall not make for yourself a carved image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above. Or that is in the earth beneath or that is in the water under the earth and you shall not bow down to them or worship them. And so I think, you know, we get confused because that idol of thinness is not a carved image or it's not like this big golden statue, but it is something that we worship in the sense that we put our worth in that. And so do you have any other thoughts on thinness being an idol and. How you recognize that in that time. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: Um, well, I like to kind of maybe address why, um, so many of us are blind to this an idol. So, uh, the story I like to tell is from David Foster Wallace, where he [00:07:00] talks about these. tells about these two fish, young, teen, adolescent fish, swimming along. And then this older fish, uh, grandfather age, uh, swims by and goes, Hey boys, how's the water? 

And they continue to go. And then in a little bit the, the adolescent fish look at each other and go, what the heck is water? 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yeah. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: And this ultimately is what, um, the idol of thinness is, uh, with diet culture in our church and. Uh, Timothy Keller, uh, says this, when we are completely immersed in a society of people who consider a particular IOUs attachment normal, it becomes almost impossible. 

Discern to discern it for what it is. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Hmm. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: Um, and that was very much the case. 'cause here's what I, uh, this is the message, you know, as a young, you know, like very young girl into middle school and junior high, this is what I received, um, the message I got from the church. My body is a temple of God, and in order to be [00:08:00] acceptable. 

To God and to be healthy, I must be thin. Therefore, I'm a failure not taking care of my body. And I'm sinning because my body is not thin. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Hmm. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: have created me to be this size. Therefore, I'm less thin vulner, um, unlovable and disappointing God. And it's okay for others to make comments about my body and look down on my, down on me because of the size of my body. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Wow. Okay, so that last part too is really striking that almost accepting degradation of others because you feel like God would not have made me in this body. So were you putting the blame on yourself? In that moment of, okay, if God didn't make me to have this body, then I must be doing something wrong. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: Absolutely. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yeah. And do, do you feel like many women have that experience now? 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yeah. You know, I think it's, um, really sad, but discrimination against one's body size is very prevalent in the church. I mean, I experienced that [00:09:00] myself of public shaming as well as like one-on-one conversations of shaming. You know, if someone is, um, talking about their body putting their body down and their body is in a smaller body than you, that essentially is them saying that your body is also not okay too. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yeah, so what you're saying is we need to be careful about the way that we talk about ourselves because it also does reveal thoughts and can perpetuate that weight stigma. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yeah, so really, um, it kind of came down to um, having a choice. And um, for that Daniel three, the Lord has used to really calm me up and out of my idol, worship of thin. And so he really, um, asked me, um, are you going to bow down to the music cues, diet, culture cues? 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Hmm 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: Or will I be, um, brave and courageous enough to stand even if I face the [00:10:00] fiery furnace of other people's opinions and thoughts of me, 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: mm. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: by not matching up to the quote unquote mold, because it's not an actual like. 

Uh, like you said, gold idol, but it actually is image, like there is this cultural size that is acceptable and essentially I believed that I had to fit in that in order to be godly and order that, and that's the only way that I could be taken care of my body if I fit that. I was using 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yeah. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: diet, um, to try to get there, but then of course we know that diets don't work, which then triggered my binge eating disorder. 

so essentially, um, it, it was an actual image that I was trying to get my, my body into. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yeah, and we don't consider them our mental images to be idols necessarily, 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: Mm-hmm. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: that's a very important thing to call out because idols can do so much [00:11:00] destruction, especially when we don't realize it. So what are some of those dangers of allowing this idol to exist? 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yeah, can we pause for a second? 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Wow. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: thing I wanna read, um, as a follow up of the, um, uh, the Daniel three thing. Um, so how could I say this? 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Well, do you want to read Scripture out? 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: Well, I do have the scripture kind of thing, but I have it kind of adjusted for, specifically for the, the idol thing. I can't remember what we said kinda before, but I, I'll just kind of do a quick like little disclaimer into what I'm reading, if that's okay. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yeah, for sure. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: Okay. All right, so then when I had the choice of whether or not I was good about or not, this is essentially from Daniel, um, three 17 through 18, what, um, what Jesus I really feel was [00:12:00] asking me to do. 

Um, and I. For me to say in this culture, um, if the God I serve exists, then he can rescue and protect me against the discrimination and prejudice in our culture against anyone who doesn't fit society's mold. But even if he does not rescue me, and I do suffer in this way. I will not use extreme and unhealthy behaviors such as disordered eating, eating disorders, obsessive exercising in order to be in a thin body, nor will, nor will I worship, thinness, and other people's praise of my body as an ultimate, as the most important thing in my life. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Hmm. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: I. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yeah, that's good. And as a quick reference to Daniel, um, may I read that out? The Daniel three 17 through 18. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yeah, please do. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Okay. So this is what he says. Um, if this be so our God, whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery [00:13:00] furnace. As you were saying, and he will deliver us out of your hand O king, but if not, be it known to you o king that we will not serve your gods or worship the golden image that you have set up. 

So, um, so just a quick reminder about, about that verse in context of they were ordered to bow down to this image of the king because he was setting himself up as God and they refused to, and they said, well, God is able to deliver us, but even if he doesn't. We're still not gonna worship your image. Um, so being able to have that trust, and you were saying, I, I'm still gonna, not going to use extreme measures to worship this idol to you, is to be able to come to that realization as, as such a healthy, um, groundbreaking, grace-filled place to be. So do you have anything else to say about dangers of allowing this idol to [00:14:00] exist? 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: Hmm. Yeah. So distorts reality. Um, our idols will distort not only our thinking, but also our feelings. Um, Keller says, when an idol gets a grip on your heart, it spins out a whole set of false definitions of success and failure and happiness and sadness. It redefines reality in terms of itself, and um, it also leads to slavery. 

And, um, you know, to, to worship thinness is to be a slave of thin. And I have found as a former slave of thin that um, it's a life of one of massive pain and suffering it. Um. Thinness never died for me. It I'll only abuse ashamed and berated me and led to more pain. Um, and when I was bowing to thinness, this is essentially internally what I was, um, saying to Jesus, um, that what he did for me on the cross wasn't enough that I had to earn [00:15:00] my value, um, and worth and identity by making my body. 

Or by using the unhealthy behaviors and a mental disorder to fit into thin, the thin mold, our culture says what needs to be in order to be, um, beautiful, lovable in somebody. I was telling him that what he says and thinks a bit about me isn't enough, nor is it true. And I was trying to be my own savior and God rather than accepting his love for me and his sacrifice on the cross. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Wow, that is hard. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: essentially too, I think it's important. Like I have a lot of gr um. compassion and grace for myself because I wasn't doing this to try to be an idol worshiper, uh, you know, to be thin. I was trying to be thin in order to be okay and to not be publicly shamed and to be accepted, right? Like. That's understandable. 

That's not, um, you know, because I'd had some bad experiences of people making comments about my body. Um, but ultimately what I turned to in order to try to fix it was [00:16:00] something other than Jesus. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yeah. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: is always going to lead to, um, uh, pain and destruction. And I always thought that, you know, sin would need freedom, but really, freedom really came when I let thin go. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Hmm. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: when freedom actually came in for me. It did result in, um, in some weight gain, actually back to the size I was before Orthorexia. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Hmm. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: but I. me, um, life living under ed in the gang was so torturous and so dark and so, uh, so much pain and suffering. When I got those first glimpses of that a hundred ton rock coming off of me, um, it was. 

It's worth it. And so now when I hear, you know, the diet culture cues around me, I can go back to, I usually go back to Daniel three and just say, you know, and, just speak that truth that I'm not going to bow down even if, and that might mean that [00:17:00] I'm gonna look different then even the people in the church around me sometimes. 

Um, and that can be, that can be hard. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yeah, but it's like that, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna burn the boats. Even if, even if I get tempted, even if I'm gonna be ostracized, even if everyone around me is on weight loss medication, I. not gonna go back. I'm not gonna go back to that. Um, I'm not gonna go back to the land of Egypt. I'm gonna face forward and you know, we said about Jesus too. 

Like, it, almost questioning is, is he enough? Um, I know that can be a really hard thing to grapple with too, but it's, it's an important question. Um, 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: And I think it's important to mention that that doesn't mean that. shouldn't take care of our bodies 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: yeah. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: You know, the, I believe the Bible is clear that our bodies aren't temple and, um, when we're our children of God, you know, the temple of the Holy Spirit. And so it matters how we care for our bodies kind of [00:18:00] thing. 

But I had made it an ultimate. So I had taken a good thing, which is care for our, my body and turned it into, um, to reflect what the society says and said I couldn't be okay unless I had that. And that's where, uh, the idol worship came in. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yeah. Right. I mean, it's putting the cart before the horse too, of like we are saying that our body's good. You know, we're gonna take care of our body in order for it to be good, versus our body's already good, so we're gonna take care of it 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: Mm-hmm. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: because God is is good. Um, okay. How can others see idle of thinness possibly in their own lives? 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yeah. So there's a lot of practical things that we can do to kind of help. Um, and we wanna start with just observing with curiosity, without shame and condemnation. Um, so essentially if you were hearing shame and condemnation, that is not of Jesus. 'cause there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ. 

Um, and it's his kindness that leads to repentance. Romans two, four says, or do [00:19:00] you despise the riches of his kindness restraint and patience. Not recognizing that God's kindness is intended to lead you to repentance. So we wanted to this to be about like, not pointing fingers at anyone here, but about just recognizing his kindness is, um, the best way to be able to reveal this. 

And when we can receive it as his kindness, then we can make changes. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yeah. That's beautiful. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: And then, um, a couple other things. So asking questions. Um, how much of your time, energy, money, and thoughts are you, are spent on your body, um, and thinness? Um, are you using extreme dysfunctional disordered behavior behaviors in order to get it or to try to get it? you choose not to do something because of the size of your body or, um, are you finding your identity and how you look essentially, rather than what Christ says about you? 

And then 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Hmm. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: also, um, the shame and discrimination. Are you thinking less of [00:20:00] others who don't match up with what society says? Um, maybe that's making public comments or maybe that's what you're thinking in, in your mind. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Hmm. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: judging someone by how they look to determine if someone is valuable, uh, rather than on the fact that they're image bearers, um, in God. 

And that's one of the big things that changed for me after, um, I found freedom. From the idle thinness is that, um, I could look at people not based on what they were in comparison to me, but on just who they as a unique image bearer of crisis, and just enjoy them for who God created them to be, rather than trying to say, I'm better or I'm worse than them. 

Essentially, what doing. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yeah. It's frees us from comparison and, and I think about too, if we are image bearers of God, then each person has unique way to reflect God. And so, but may, us, may, may, we never stifle that, um, on ourselves and each other. And so. Being able to [00:21:00] look for the treasure of the Lord in each person, I think is such a beautiful way to see people. Um, okay, so observing with curiosity, asking good questions. Was there another practical step? 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: Um, asking, yeah, asking good questions. Uh, and I mentioned some of those questions, but I think just, um, observing the, the tone of voice as you observe this. Again, trying not to shame or condemn yourself, whatever you are observing, but I call it information gathering 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Mm-hmm. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: And then based on that information, and that can be helpful in knowing next steps we need to take or where the problem really is. 

And so, um, you know, some of those questions I think can really kind of, um, reveal the heart and, um. As Andy Colbert would say, I'd encourage you to do it. Trying softer rather than harder too. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yes. Such a good book. I highly recommend that. Have you ever read that? And then strong like water too. All of our content. [00:22:00] So good. Okay. Thank you for that. I think it's just helpful to be able to say, okay, maybe I am doing this and so what I do about it now, um, you have any other, so if someone is recognizing that idol in their life, what's something that they can do? 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: Okay, so the good news that there's hope change is possible. Um, and, uh, it's really not about hating or not taking care of our, our bodies, but loving Jesus more, even more than our bodies and putting him first 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Mm. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: just proper order of things. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Mm-hmm. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: I think the biggest thing, can I pause there? Does that. 

Is there anything about that that you didn't feel comfortable with? 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: No. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: Okay. Um, okay. I'll wait 10 seconds or five seconds and then I'll start again. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Okay. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: So probably the biggest thing I would really, um, [00:23:00] wanna mention, what we can do about it, it's the difference between a concept versus a lived experience. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Mm-hmm. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: ultimately what really sets us free is the love of Jesus, but it's not knowing the concept of it, it's having the lived, embodied experience of that. 

So that is the difference of like. Before I knew intellectually that Jesus loved me there. You know, I grew up as a, as a Christian and, and knew, but if you would ask me what it feels like to be loved by Jesus, I wouldn't have really been able to tell you. Like I didn't have lived experiences in my body. 

It was all head knowledge so. one of the, the best ways, uh, that, that God helped me in that was, uh, allowing me to experience and practice healing prayer, which again, allows us to engage the imagination that God gave us to be able to experience him in very tangible ways. So. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Mm-hmm. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: time for that today, so go check out episode 65 on healing prayer [00:24:00] if you're interested in learning more. 

But, um, this is not simply about dealing with behavior change, although that will be part of it. But what we need to do is actually, um, addressing the root wound or trauma that might have led to it in the first place, and then allowing Jesus to meet us in those places. Um, that lasting, um, change can actually happen. 

And when I did this, then I was able to know about from experience that Jesus' love is better than thin. And it's, I can, like, I have specific memories of where he allowed me to experience his love as being better than all the praise that I got when my body, um, got smaller. And so, um. And then it becomes about a practice of again and again, repetition right over and over and over again, clearing that new trail, um, through neuroplasticity of really reminding ourselves over and over again of experiencing, um, Jesus's [00:25:00] love. 

I two books that I would highly recommend for really practically addressing these, the freedom of self forgetfulness by Timothy Keller, as well as, um, Heather Creek Moore's book compared to who was really pivotal, um, in giving up thin and, and addressing the the body image aspect. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yeah, great resources. Thank you for those. And freedom of self forgetfulness is a tiny little. Book. I wouldn't say it's an easy read because it is, it is full of lots of truth and so you'll want to take a slow and absorb it. Um, and Heather Creek Moore's book too is, um, a little bit more entertaining read. 

She's just, her sense of humor is clear in her writing, but it's also. Really does for you as you read it. So I love both of those. And I, I always think of two of this is versus referring to, do not be drunk with wine but be filled with the spirit. Like it is better to be filled with the spirit, [00:26:00] um, and. For whatever experience that we're seeking, whatever, um, body we're seeking, is better to be filled with the spirit. 

And so being able to seek and understand what that means and, um, seeking God with your whole heart and knowing that you'll find him is, is such to me, is exciting. Um, more exciting than. Then, you know, and it can be hard to ditch, leave behind, uh, that, that idol sometimes. And so being able to be able to see that hope that is set before us, like you were saying too, I think is a really huge part of it too. 

Um, I'm able to hear your experience of how much better it is on the other side. is there anything else that you would like to leave the listeners with, before they go? 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yeah, so I think the most important thing, if you hear anything today, that this is about a savior who loves you much that [00:27:00] he was willing to be beaten, spit on, tortured, literally nailed to a cross. And, um, as he was carrying the cross to where he would die, your specific name was on his mind. Um, and as the nails were being, um, you know, na nailed into his hands, um. 

He was thinking, I love my daughter so much and I want her to be with me forever, and so I won't run away. I'll stay and, um, I, I wanna be with her forever. So this is the only way, 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Hmm. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: and the pain and suffering is worth it to me in order to save my daughter. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yeah. That's beautiful. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: we really want to, we want to experience the truth of the gospel, not just have it be a concept. 

And when I recognize that, um, it caused Jesus' life because of my idol worship, 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Mm. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: what [00:28:00] he went through broke my heart. And I, you know, I, I don't wanna do it because I don't have to, I don't have to earn it because it's a gift, but I do it because. I don't have to earn it, right? Like I'm, everything. And so from that place, then I want, I wanna lay down the idol of thin because it cost him everything. 

And so really just thinking about, um, making it personalized for me individually and not just like, Jesus died for the whole world, which he did, but making it personal for me broke my heart and allowed me to, um, just so appreciate what he did for me. So if he could. Lay down his life for me and go through that kind of torture, then I can, can lay down, um, the idol of thinness. 

'cause it was hard. It was really hard. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Mm-hmm. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: And so then also too, remembering that this is a process. It's not gonna happen overnight. um, but through the gift of neuroplasticity, our. Our old, um, [00:29:00] trails that we used to take and thoughts and, and behaviors that we had. We can create new ones, but on average they say it's about two millimeters per day. 

and so that's just a very slow process of doing a lot of new trailblazing and clearing and repetition over and over again. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yes, but also a very and tangible image to think about of, oh, our brain actually does grow. It's not just our heads. It is a real process. And so, um, I think that's really hopeful information. okay. A fun question for you, and thank you for sharing that too. I think it is really getting us to heart of this. 

It's not just. It's, this is not just self-help. It's not just something to make you better as a person. Um, this is to glorify and honor God because that is where we will find our life and our eternal health, which is who, [00:30:00] what we wanna be more focused on than this temporary life, um, as to be able to. See Jesus. 

Um, especially as he sees us too. So what a beautiful picture. So thank you for sharing with us. Um, and you know, I asked you this question last time, but it might have changed. How are you discovering joyful health now? 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: Um, so just a lot of like gentle and slow movement and, um, learning how to just really accommodate with how, um, my body is post, uh, injury, uh, and living with chronic pain and things like that. And recently I've been doing that through, um, getting out in my yard and, um, we bought a home not too long ago and she has a ton of landscaping and I've never done any landscaping. 

So, uh, it's about. Not doing it perfectly, but just about, again, engaging in, um, with the senses that God gave me, being out, being able to move, the benefit of being out in nature, which really speaks, um, to me [00:31:00] and is really life giving. Um, and not to do it so that. My, um, yard, you know, can impress other people, but simply to just do it for the enjoyment of doing it in and of itself as an act of worship and the fact that I can have the ability to be able to get up and do that, that's been a real gift. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yes. I think yard work is one of one of the most fulfilling types of movement because not only are you interacting with the earth and being connected in your body, but you're also being able to see the fruit of the ground respond too, which I. is very satisfying, especially when if you plant any type of fruit or you know, flowering things or just even having green grass pop up, it's, um, it's a beautiful thing to do. 

So thank you for sharing that. And last but not least, how can others find you if they would like to work with you? 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yeah. So, um, I'd like to offer five of your listeners a [00:32:00] gift. If they're interested. So the first five, um, listeners who reach out, um, through my website at Kassandrabaker.com, Kassandra's with a k, um, I'd love to give them with a complimentary 60 minute coaching session. Um, and you can also email me at in [email protected]. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Okay, well, such a generous gift. I mean, truly. So if you are someone who's thinking, uh, this sounds like she's talking about me, I don't really know what steps to take or where to go, or who to get advice from or who to get guidance from. Um. Please take advantage of this generous gift and just meet with her. 

And, um, Kassandra, I know that she is truly a giver and so no strings attached, as in she wants to help you if you need it. so thank you again and would you be willing to pray for us as we go? 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: Yes, [00:33:00] I would love to. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Okay, thank you. 

kassandra-baker_1_05-12-2025_124231: Hmm. Jesus, I just thank you so much for the opportunity to be able to have this discussion today, and I just pray that every listener, um, who's listening would just hear your heart of kindness and compassion. 

Jesus, you see our behaviors for what they are, but ultimately you'll always recognize that our behaviors, especially our dysfunctional, uh, behaviors, are always a, um, a symptom of deeper issues and usually of hurt and, and wounds and trauma and, and you want to meet us in those places, Jesus. And so I pray for every listener who's listening right now who's really struggling. 

And I just pray, uh, Jesus, if, if they don't know what it knows to feel your love, that you would orchestrate the details for your love to no longer just be a concept, but for them to be able to experience [00:34:00] that your love is better than thin. And you know that this process is, um, usually long and it's many steps. 

And so I just pray that, um. If they're struggling with this, that you would just show them your kindness, just the first step to take. And then that, just the next one, after that, and you know exactly what they need in their journey. And I pray, um, that you would give them the courage and the nudge. 

If you want them to reach out, whoever you want them to reach out to, who might be able to help them, whether that be a book or someone, or listening to more, um, episodes on, on this, Jesus. And so I just pray again they would, if they would just remember just how much you love them and allow them to experience the truth of your gospel. 

Thank you so much for loving us so deeply [00:35:00] and willing to go through so much pain in order to save us. In your name we pray. Amen. 

kasey-shuler_1_05-12-2025_124231: Amen. Thank you so much and thank you for listening. Um, and until next time, may you rest in his grace and follow the joy.