What We Talk About in This Episode

In Episode 12 of the Joyful Health Show, we interview exercise therapist Catherine Hamilton about how to move forward with joyful movement with an injury or other physical limitation. Catherine shares her personal story of how over-exercising led to injury, how she learned to lean on God alone in the middle of healing, and then how she became a corrective exercise specialist to teach others in turn.

In this episode:

• We talk about how physical limitations and injuries don’t mark the end of your movement practice, but the beginning of a new way of moving. 

• Catherine shares her own struggle as well as practical tips for making the mental shift to listening to your body

• Plus,  how you can work with your body’s healing process as you discover the creative spectrum of joyful movements.

Connect with Catherine on instagram at: https://www.instagram.com/cat.c.hamilton/

You can find her on https://www.cathamiltonwellness.com/

**Trigger warning: references to weight gain, weight loss and emotions surrounding that referenced throughout Catherine’s personal story.

Resources for Episode 12

1. Connect with Catherine for a free consultation at https://www.cathamiltonwellness.com/contact 

2. Make exercise stick with our free Joyful Movement habit worksheets: https://joyfulhealth.mykajabi.com/movement-habit-opt-in

3. Tune into your body’s cues and connect in prayer with our Body Blessings Journal: https://amzn.to/3j20Viv

Guest Bio

Catherine Hamilton, CPT

Catherine Hamilton is an Exercise Therapist and Corrective Exercise Specialist centered on holistic health. With a heart for physical and mental healing, Catherine teaches clients how to learn and recognize the body’s signals to build fitness for long term activity, injury prevention, and pain-free movement. She lives and trains in Athens, GA, with her husband and 2 daughters.

You can connect with Brittany here:

Instagram:@cat.c.hamilton

Website: cathamiltonwellness.com

Episode Transcription

Introduction

Hey friends, welcome to the Joyful Health Show. I'm Aubrey, a registered dietitian, and I'm Kasey, a personal trainer. And together we’re here to help you discover joyful health by grace.

Aubrey

Hi, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of The Joyful Health Show. We have the honor of interviewing Catherine Hamilton today about the common question we get, which is how can I still practice joyful movement if I have a physical limitation or I'm suffering from an injury?

So we're so excited. Welcome Catherine.

Catherine

Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.

Kasey

Okay, so if you're watching this on YouTube, I am here with Catherine right now— super exciting, we go way back. We were talking about it, I don't know, probably eight years.

Catherine

Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah.

Kasey

And you're acting with community Bible study. In and out.

Catherine

Yeah. In and out of each other's lives in kind of funny ways. But I was always so excited to meet up again and be buddies.

Kasey

Yeah. So we get to be in the same town, and we wanted to get Catherine on today, because she is an expert in this topic and really has a lot to share from her own personal story and from a professional standpoint.

So for those of y'all who don't know Catherine, she's an exercise therapist and corrective exercise specialist centered on holistic health. She has a heart for physical and mental healing, and she teaches her clients how to learn and recognize the body signals to build fitness for long term activity, injury prevention and pain free movement. So she lives and trains right here in Athens, Georgia, with her husband and two daughters.

Okay. So Catherine, tell us a little bit about your history with physical limitations and injury when it comes to exercise. What was like your mental struggle in the middle of that? How did the Lord meet you there and why do you do what you do as a result?

A Testimony of Overtraining, Injury, and Redefining Fitness

Catherine

Okay. So it goes back to, I'm going to take it all the way back, to after I had babies, because that was when the the issue of just the weight was very difficult.

I gained a lot of weight with my first baby. And then my second I found out I was pregnant when my first baby was eight months old. And so it was sort of like Boom-Boom. And I really wasn't through the hormonal period yet. And like I said, I had put on a lot of weight with my first.

And so after my second was born, I was carrying a good bit of extra weight. And so this was really before the whole fitness journey for me. I was familiar with fitness and did workout, but it certainly wasn't like my job at the time and I wasn't doing it all the time.

So at that point, I just decided to, you know, begin to educate myself on how I could be healthy regardless of size. You know, I wanted to feel my body, right and move my body correctly. And so I just sort of, you know, voraciously read things and educated myself. And one thing led to another, and I became a fitness instructor and then a trainer.

But during that time, as I was getting healthy, I actually, it was like this big kind of arc. I did become healthy. I did drop some weight. And that was actually a side effect of kind of the good choices that I began to make and the education that I was getting and all of that. And I just really fell in love with fitness and nutrition and all of that.

So I was healthy for a period of time, doing the right thing. And then I took a little bit of a turn and got a little bit involved with well, I'll just say, I began to be overly controlling of the food, and I would say it was disordered eating is what I would say, or food control and also exercise addiction.

So it sort of turned bad. It was a really good thing that went awry. And that's because exercise does make you feel really good. You know, it's, it is endorphins. It does meet you, you know, it helps you in a lot of ways. You know, especially when you're trying to better yourself and you know, a young mom and you got hormones that are crazy and all that.

So during the exercise addiction phase, I began to, you know, obviously I was overtraining. So I began to really see just one injury after another, after another, after another. And long story short, a knee injury, a torn meniscus took me out of a marathon training program that I was in. And that was sort of it for me. That was when I guess I hit bottom to say, you know, that sounds kind of silly, I think, for some people to say, oh, I was training for a marathon and I hurt my knee and that was my that was my bottom.

But it was kind of for me, I know that sounds kind of silly, but I just realized that I was doing things that weren't good for my body, that I was starting to really self-harm, you know, and and it scared me to death. And I think that what I began to realize and, you know, obviously really fell to my knees and asked God to help me through this sort of.

I was confused. I didn't know I was already a trainer at that point. I had clients. I was very busy and I didn't know what I was. If I was hurt, you know, what does that make me? Does that make me, you know, a bad trainer? Does that make me a bad mom? And, you know, who am I at this point?

And so, you know, just kind of fell to my knees and He started to show me that I was really involved in self-harm and self-loathing and self-centeredness and sort of worshiping the idol of exercise and really self because ultimately, it was so I could be this person, this, you know, perfect girl. Right. And and so fast forward, I ended up getting involved in exercise therapy through my own therapy, my own physical therapy and issues that I began to have and I realized that fitness really isn't about looking a certain way or really anything like that.

It's about how how it', it's able ness, right? It's capable-ness, being fit to do something is being able to do something. And so why am I treating my body in a way that is taking that away? It's actually fit less right? So I, I really just prayed, and God led me down that road of exercise therapy, and I began to help others realize that same kind of goal being fit and being able and not being, you know, not harming yourself through that overtraining.

I'm sort of baffled on that one. Sorry.

Aubrey

No, I love that definition of fitness, like being able to do whatever it is that you're called to do or whatever it is that you have in your life that you're wanting to do. And I saw a video the other day with a trainer who was training a much older woman, and she had been training just to stand up out of a chair on her own.

And she did it in the video and she was like so excited. And that’s, to me, what you're saying. Like this definition of fitness is that we are able to do what we are meant to do or what we're called to do. And so that's awesome. I know I want you to talk about what you do with clients and kind of how you help them make this shift from maybe moving in a way that's self-harming to moving in a way that's helping them become able.

But I also just want to ask a question real quick. When you're talking about that moment from being a new mom and losing a little bit of weight and getting healthier and fitter and then it kind of descending into an unhealthy relationship, what I hear is finding your identity in fitness and in being healthy or being, you know, looking a certain way.

How Body Comments Enable A Misplaced Identity

Maybe it wasn't bad, but I know a lot of times people can give compliments after like someone has lost weight or people can start to comment on that. Did you feel like other people's perception of you after you had the baby and when you got into that [fitness and weight loss] affected your relationship with movement?

Catherine

Absolutely. And my relationship with myself, I mean, you know, I really liked myself.

I liked who I was. I liked what I looked like. I had struggled. I have struggled off and on with weight my whole life. And although I was never severely overweight until after the baby's you know, I remember my first question when I was about age five. And, you know, I was a tiny, skinny little kiddo who ran around outside all day long and played with my friends in the neighborhood.

And I asked this little boy down the road named Chandler. I remember him because he was so cute and he was my big brother's friend. And I just loved Chandler. And we sat on the front on the front step, and I was like, Chandler, do you think I'm fat? And he said, I would say pleasantly plump. Now, mind you, I was super.

I was like a super skinny little kid. And I probably had like a little bit of like the baby belly and the baby cheeks and all of that. But, you know, that's what he told me. And no one. How messed up is it that I was saying that at like that young of an age and to how powerful those words were to me.

So it was an affirmation. Yes. You're fat really in my brain, right. To me because he you know, he affirmed really. And so I guess I guess what I'm saying is. Yes, absolutely. Things that people said to me, the attention that I got changed the way I felt about myself changed. And I really, really liked who I was.

I liked here's the good list. I was disciplined. I was extremely productive during my days. I felt I was homeschooling my children. I was working out, I was teaching classes and I was personal training and training myself. So I was like, I am literally superwoman. I am awesome. And that just makes you want to keep going, right? Because once you had awesome, you're like not going back, right?

I mean, you don't want to go backwards. And so that's sort of like the devastation of what you can do to yourself because you know, that was completely worldly affirmation that I was really giving myself and convincing myself that that's where it was at you know, I mean, God took the backseat for sure. Rather than finding my identity in Christ and loving myself through Christ, it was no, I mean, if I can't do five Pull-Ups in a row or more, or if I can't do this many pushups, or if I don't have the best shoulders on the block, then I'm nothing.

You know? And so it starts out really great. But then, yeah, you get, you get compliments. You get me. I got hired a lot. I got hired a lot. And you think that without being at that level, your value is is diminished and I really believe it's more about self than and how you view yourself and really anything anybody ever says to you, it's who do you look in the mirror and like that change you've made or do you value the changes that you've made?

While those changes might be good, but if you think that your value is based on those things, and not in Christ, that's where the, you know, kind of like brain heart connection explodes or implodes so you have to be able to, I think, look at yourself in the mirror and say, regardless of what I do, how much control I have over my daily activities, how much control I have over my food, I mean, none of that matters. It's about the fact that Christ has given me life and he's given me movement and he's given me this opportunity to live a life and affect others. And it has nothing to do with my aesthetics or really how far I can run or anything like that. You know, so it's a how you affect other people. I don't know if I answered that right, but I just that's.

Kasey

Yeah, yeah. I feel like whenever I was there for a lot of that, like I saw you whenever you had a shoulder injury, and that was after you had really run yourself into the ground. But there is still a lot of questioning of like, you know, who I am, I kind of question.

And so I think for a lot of our audience and our clients, they get really discouraged when they've been a runner for all their life and they get a significant injury. And now they can’t do that. There is that identity shift, who am I or where? If you gain weight after pregnancy, who am I now? And then it's less, like you said about the weight, and more about the identity shift of like I used to be this anonymous.

And who I see in the mirror is not who I recognize anymore. So then you have to ask yourself, who am I and what can I do? A lot of people think that they are disqualified from joyful movement if they have any kind of physical limitation, whether it's an injury or or if you're in a bigger body that okay, well, this gym is not for me or it because everyone looks like this at the gym or a trainer is supposed to look like this is qualified for being a trainer because I'm injured or I have disqualified myself, you know, and whatever way it is

And so that can, like you said, that really leads back to yourself and your own self efforts where you're at joyful health. We really emphasize the point of grace. And no, it's actually God who moves towards us first. It's not us who move towards God and who who has who can achieve these things in order to be a good trainer or a good mom or, or a good person because you feel like you can do everything.

When You Don’t Feel Like You Fit the Fitness Mold

And what happens when you can't do everything? Well, you're still held, you're still held by the Lord.

And so what would you say to someone who has either just injured themselves or they might feel disqualified from the fitness culture based on the looks around fitness culture, around like being a certain body size or wearing certain clothes? What would you say that that person who is in that spot where they feel like they can't do what fitness looks like?

Catherine

Well, gosh, unfortunately it is, it's such the ugly part of fitness and the fitness industry right now is and especially for young moms. And I don't know why I keep going back there. Maybe. I don't know. But you do feel like you have to be, you know, in the right clothes. You know, you have to have the name brand leggings and looked good in them and, you know, be able to hang through that one minute interval and, you know, do the high knee run instead of the March in place, or what have you.

But you know, I just think a lot about movement is really, it's such a gift and movement is such a way to like praise the Lord, thank the Lord. You know, be grateful for the ability to, I don't know, just like express that joy through movement and movement isn't and I'm going to shift back to the word fitness. Fitness isn't, you know, boxing for 3 minutes in a row or being able to do jump squats alongside, you know, the next person or being able to run a marathon or being able to run a 5K or being able to walk a 5K. Okay. You know, it's not the presidential test where you can do the mile run, the push ups, the you know, that's no, that's not what it is.

Right. It's who are you inside here, who Christ did make you to be and how do you express your able ness, right? Through movement. So what would I say to somebody who feels like they can't do it? I would say, yes, you can. I mean, does it take courage to step out into something that you don't feel like you belong in?

Yes. Does it take I mean, I, I think it's, I think it's very, very challenging to go into an environment that, that makes you feel less-than. And so there's a lot of different approaches I would take. I might say we'll find one that's not, you know, find someone, find a trainer, find someone, find a friend that will meet you where you are.

Some great resources online. Pull up a video on YouTube, you know, follow a true beginners workout, follow a seated beginners workout. Those are just real applicable ways to do that. And they're just there are options out there. I think they are hard to find, but there are options out there for everyone at every level. And it just again, it just comes back to prayer.

You know, before you begin that journey, just remember to and that's something that shifted for me was I started to pray before I would workout or before I would eat for cook food or whatever because I was so stuck in that pattern of, you know, kind of self-hatred. And I need to understand, well, if I'm going. And a lot of times it was Kasey praying for me, not me, but a lot of times it was like, you know, what is what am I doing today?

Because this is hurting and I don't. And there was still a lot of that battle of hatred. You know, it was it was like a seesaw. You know, I was like, okay, I'm ready to be me. And God who God made me to be. And that's a la la la. Yeah, right. But really, was I feeling that? No, I mean, there was a lot of still like. But is that real? Is that true? Or am I just saying those things? I was just saying them for a long time. But the prayer going to the Lord and saying, okay, I know that this is what you want for me and that this is where you have me right now. So help me stay centered in you. You know, help me, help me remember that, you know, I am nothing without Christ you know, but everything with him and and just to move forward in that and really listen to your body, move the way your body wants you to move you know, enjoy it.

Take a walk, walk out to the mailbox, do something that makes you happy. Yeah, there's I mean, sorry yeah. That's all I got.

Ask me more questions because I just feel like on my you know.

Aubrey

I love it. I love it. And I think, you know, your level of able ness stuck out to me, too, because you know, maybe we have one side of people or one side of the audience, you might be experiencing an injury, and they feel like they've lost their identity and they feel like we've spoken to them and then we might have another side who is fearful of exercising at all. I know for a certain generation, there was a lot of fear about like, you just do this exercise wrong, like you're going to injure yourself. And it was like they just don't see themselves as capable at all of doing even these, you know, of doing anything.

And can talk about a few practical ways to get started if you are in this like lower fitness category, you have never really moved your body in an intentional workout way. And could you just speak to that person about the fear of moving their body, or fear of injury? I don't know if you've experienced that after recovery or if you've experienced that with some of your clients.

How to Start Joyful Movement if You Fear Injury

Catherine

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that's one of those things, right? Like you hurt your shoulder and it's like, okay, well, I can I do, can I do anything, you know, without messing it up worse or just let it lie for three weeks and put ice on it. You know, that kind of stuff. But also just the fear of, you know, not being adequate enough I think that I mean, I recommend getting a trainer right off the bat, at least for the beginning, because it's really important to have that person guide you through those questions.

I mean, Kasey trained me. Why did she train me? Because I was like this populated about my own body, you know? But I always say trainers need trainers. I mean, we all need help. We all need guidance. We all need somebody to walk alongside us. That's okay. And, you know. Yeah. So I would say reach out, get a trainer, do some research, try to find someone who is going to understand where you need to begin.

We know there's all those trainers out there. And unfortunately, the vast majority of trainers are going to be like, I don't care what you say, do a hundred, but, you know, do a hundred push ups. I don't care that you have tennis elbow, do this, blah, blah, blah, blah. I mean, there are a lot of people like that. There are some excellent people who would be very much willing to listen and work the work out around the the client.

But you need to do that research, right? So you need to ask for a consultation. Go and tell them what you're looking for. Tell them where you are. Like, I do not move my body. I am afraid to move my body. I want this to be a slow, steady process. I want to build healthy habits. I actually have a client right now that's making me think of her who came in and was like, I hate exercise.

Guys. I don't exercise. I don't want to exercise. I am going to hate every time I come to see you. I'm promising you right now I'm not going to cancel on you, but I only want to come once a week, her whole thing as I am just trying to build a healthy habit. And so, you know, she was like, please don't make me do this.

Please don't make me do that. And I was just cheering her on. I was so excited that she came to me and said that stuff right out, right out in the open and that she was owning it. And she was like, I know this and I want this, but I'm telling you now, I'm going to hate every second of it.

And we work together. We work together. But I you know, it's the right match. It's the right match. So my advice is go out, find the right match for you. Start with a trainer, workout with someone that's going to guide you, but that is going to really care for, you know, not only your physical health, but your mental health and emotional health as well, because it is not fair to throw somebody into, you know, a very intense workout who's not ready for it emotionally.

Doesn't matter physically if they're ready emotionally and mentally, if they're not there, you've got to take them back to where they need to begin. So ask for a free consultation. Say, I would like to meet you before I sign up because I have some real important significant things that I'm going to need from you. So I would say start there and when you find the right match, just show up and forgive yourself to, you know, forgive yourself for being hesitant and it's okay.

It's okay to be hesitant. It's okay to hate it. It's okay to tell them you hate it. It you know, it's fine. Like, you should be honest. You should say, I don't want to do this.

Kasey

This is terrible. Yeah, that's I mean, cause I'm like, what can we talk about more in this limited space of time? So if you like, I mean, you said all trainers, trainers and trainers, we all need you to help and support.

I mean, as Christians, we are one body, and we can't function as a body if we're not connected to one another in love and so, like you said, finding someone, it is helpful to have a professional walk you through the basics of how how can I help you take care of your whole body. In a way that you enjoy.

So there's that by grace, power as the grace as you've been given a body, what can you do? And the evilness part is, does not look like any specific movement mode. If I mean, if you can open and shut your eyes, that's movement. If you can lift the corners of your mouth movement, tap your feet, tap your feet, you know, listening to the song on the radio, tapping your feet, moving your arms a little bit.

I mean, yeah. Have fun, right? Right. I mean, because I just want to be clear that we're not talking about able ness is like looking like any certain thing. Absolutely. Because the grace part is that God is moving our heart and our lungs and all of those internal crucial parts of our body. So we can just start there and give thanks that God moves us.

He, first of all, gives life to us and breathes that breath of life into us. And so it's receiving that and then moving for that joy. That's set before you that he has that he's drawing you out. What are those things that you enjoy that you want to feel more alive in in your body?

Yeah. And so as far as being able to like if someone is is injured right now, I think you've talked about being able to rest and be patient through that, you know, access because they're, it's always temporary. I mean, even our bodies in this life are temporary. There's always the eternal hope. And even Jesus has scars so like our idea of perfection is never God's idea.

So being able, like you said, to pray and be honest about what it is that you think that you need. And I think God to give you his desires and he will fulfill the desires of your heart and so delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart. So, Catherine, you as a trainer, you went through this and now you teach people how to move in a very functional way that is holistic, because what's healthy doesn't just mean like exercise three times a week for this.

Many times it's what's good for you. Like you said, their mental health, health and social health, what's going relationally, what's going on emotionally, just in life circumstances with stress, So is there anything else that you would like to leave the listener with if they are feeling stuck right now, whether it comes to being injured or feeling stuck?

What to Do When Your’e Feeling Stuck

Catherine

Just not sure where to start I have a I have a few things that are popping up in my brain.

Number one is start with maybe something completely different, so if you are someone who loves yoga, maybe pick a different style of workout. Maybe you do a dance workout online or you know, something that's just going to be kind of completely off the wall for you. If you are someone who is, you know, into high intensity training and you've really just racked up a lot of injuries, do a nice, easy Pilates class, do a yoga class, do do something fun, maybe go for a hike with your family if that's something that you need to reconnect.

So changing it up, doing things that are life-giving it to you. So sit down, pray, think about the things that maybe you've been missing out on a little bit. Do you need to reconnect with your family? Do you is there a friend? Do you want to reconnect with? Go for a walk, go shopping. You know, I mean, shopping is walking, you know, take a dance class, take a ballroom class.

You know, there's so there's just so many options. But sit down and think about what is actually going to be life giving for you and what's going to bring joy back in that you've just maybe been you know, we don't think about those things right out of the gate. Right. If if our identity is here in this one particular thing, then we don't think about the wide variety of other options that are out there.

So change it up and reconnect with people. And I don't know why this other thought keeps coming up in my brain, but because it does, I'm going to say it. So one of the things that I have told, one of the things that I did actually when I was scared of the gym, or I was really very depressed, I was struggling quite a bit with just any kind of movement forward.

And I've given this advice to a lot of people who don't want to go take that next step. I'm not going to I don't want to go to the gym. That's the example that kind of, I want to use but don't want to take that next step. Just get in your car and drive there first, like the first day, just get in your car, put your favorite music on and drive there.

Whether that's to a place where, a park where you like to walk, but you know, you're not feeling it. You're not you're not feeling that drive or you know, when we're really depressed, we can we don't want to go. We don't want to do the things that really we know are going to bring us joy. So get in the car and show up drive there, drive right back home, you know, next day, say, okay, I'm going to drive there and I'm going to just walk in or I'm going to walk over to the bench or, you know, I'm going to whatever it is.

Then the next time you walk in and you walk in and maybe you walk to a piece of equipment or you drive to the park, you walk to the pass and you go find a leaf or something, you know, whatever that looks like. You're taking little baby steps to get to a point where all of a sudden you're on the treadmill or all of a sudden you're in that police class.

I can't believe I walked in there. I am scared to death of people. I'm scared to death of new things. I'm scared to death of looking silly. I'm scared to death. I won't be able to do it. But all of a sudden, you're in there because you've taken these baby steps and they haven't been bad. You know, that just kept on coming to my head.

And I was like, yeah, I got it. I got a I got to give that piece of advice because I have so been in that place where I was just like, I just I'm scared to death. To, to do it, to go in. I can't visualize myself doing that activity, even if it is something that I love. A dance class or whatever. So just take those baby steps one thing at a time. Yeah. Does that help at all?

Aubrey

For sure.

Catherine

Okay.

Aubrey

Yeah, we had a, I think it was Char-lee on our episode in which she talked about the power of just doing like 1%.

Kasey

Yeah, we like 1% and Yeah, and like this actually gave us some examples. Like, if you want to go on a walk outside, like maybe just go to the door and open your eyes and write the video and have a dance video in, you know, just put it in and then take it right back out, you know, like it's okay.

Yeah. Little steps. Sorry. I interrupted you.

Aubrey

No, no, That's it. That's all I was going to say. I just think. And sometimes when you do the thing like that little thing, you end up doing more than you thought you would do because you're like, oh, I'm over the hump. Yeah, exactly, exactly. You take that little step so that that is so helpful.

And I think all of the talk about identity, maybe you didn't expect you're going to get that when you clicked on this episode. But I think it's so, so important because it's so tied up in a lot of overtraining and also that feeling that we have either of just being fearful to exercise because we don't believe we are a certain person, that we had to be a certain type of person to do that.

Or when we've lost our identity, we feel like we've lost our identity when we can't exercise or we’re injured. So I’m so happy we went there and so happy we shared so many good practical things hopefully for you guys. And Catherine, would you just share where people can get in touch with you? You know, do you train virtually?

Connect with Catherine and Closing Prayer

Catherine

I do. I haven't been doing a lot of it recently since you know, when COVID started, I sort of went virtual. But yeah, I love virtual training. I am set up for it so I can I can dove right back in there at any time. And if people are interested, they can go to my website that is https://www.cathamiltonwellness.com .
Kasey

Well thank you. Yeah. It's very important once again to find someone that you trust. If you're not sure where to start, just ask around. We would love to help you to help y'all out. If you're not sure where to start, you can connect with us as well. If you are a joyful movement trainer, we wholly endorse Catherine Yes. So if you don't mind, I'll go ahead and pray. Alright?

Yeah. Okay.

Heavenly Father, I thank you that you are the one who brings life into us and that we get to just receive your life. And when we think about fitness, I just thinking about like, what's the fitness of a species? It's to reproduce and you're here to reproduce life and us. And so I think you that you give us what is giving in that it's a gift straight from you. And that we get to move into that by your power. I also think about how great and abundant your love is I'm going to go ahead and read from Ephesians 3 that we might have that you might have the strength to comprehend with all the saints. What is the breadth and the length and the height and depth and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge that you may be filled with all the fullness of God’s thoughts. I thank you for each person who is listening. May you bless them and keep them and forever move them towards you and your joy in Jesus name. Amen.
Kasey

Okay, friends, thanks so much for listening. And until next time, may you rest and His grace and follow the joy